• Piset
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Mahwatthai's Box Box Box
This blog will present and provide a ground of exchange of the broad spectrum of ideas covering the well being of the nation and the people of Thailand
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Monday , January 6 , 2014
When A Government Resorts to Ridiculous Lies
Posted by Piset , Reader : 401 , 12:30:17  

I am trying to recall when was the last time another government resorted to ridiculous lying to its own people, why, and what as the consequences.

The situation would be much worse if such a government had to hope to rely on their repeated or amended lies, one after another, following the needs to retreat in the face of evidences contradicting to their lies.  But the lies keep on coming out of the sitting high authorities, through the state media.

If that wasn't Thailand, nor the Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution era China, where else could that be.  why?

Just to illustrate a few, here they are:

1)  Regarding the existence and roles of the "black clothed men" during the December 26 incidents at Thai-Japanese Stadium in Ding Daeng

Reports from the field by the media first indicated a cop and a protester were fatally shot by live-bullets along with 171 injured, many of them, including many policemen, by live bullets.

The issue:  Where did those live bullets come from, whose guns?  
The police: None of the 1800-2000 policemen dispatched to the site carried any guns or live bullets.  This is lie number one.

This lie by police chief and the police spokesman was cracked almost instantly when international journalists and people at the site showed hundreds of photographs of police firing various types of guns and tossing grenades at protesters.

2.  "Black clothed men" brought in to instigate angers and worsen violence

The issue:  Did the black clothed men exist?  Were they Thai policemen? Why were they there?  Why did they had to attire in black rather than their regular police uniform?

Thai police:  Nobody saw any black clothed men

Thai police had to concede to the existence of the black clothed men on the rooftop only after the photographs taken by some foreign photographers were shared in the facebook and in the world media.

Thai police:  If black clothed men existed, they were part of the protesters, brought in to kill the police.

The Government's security adviser, Chalerm Yoobamlung:  The black clothed men were the protesters brought up to the Labor's Ministry's rooftop by helicopters.

Later, Thai police chief:  Yes, the black clothed men existed at the site, there were only 10 of them, they were there to observe the situation and to fire tear gas, they were unarmed otherwise.

Late, Thai police spokesman, showing mis-scaled 3-dimension maps:  The police attired in black on the rooftop were had no angles to fire at the killed persons.  (But he shrunken his illustration to conceal the actual distance of over 100 m between the buildings.

Most of the hundreds of journalists and photographers in the areas were positioned on the side of the protesters as they were not allow accesses on the police's side.  However, there had been absolutely no reports of the sighting of any protesters carrying or using any kind of guns at all.

From all evidence collected, considering the motivation, capacity and opportunities to commit the crime of shooting the policemen and the protesters with live ammunition, I can only conclude that, since there has been no reports or proofs from any sources whatsoever that any protesters carried or used any guns on that day at that site while ample evidence showed Thai policemen and the black clothed men carried and used guns and had live ammunition delivered and stored at the site, it is only reasonable to say that only the policemen and the black clothed men can be the persons who fired at both the policemen and the protesters.

Since the black clothed men did exist and were positioned in the vantage point on the rooftop and were mixed in among the policemen when brutal assaults were carried out against the people.  And, along with the later admission by police spokesman and police chief, it proves that the black clothed men was brought in by the police with the intention to gain advantages for their campaigns against the protesters.   There had, thus far been no reasonable explanation as to the reason that the black clothed men should attire in black, if they were regular Thai policemen carrying out normal police duties.  It goes to the weight of proving the ill intents of the police or Thai government in bringing in these black clothed men.

Considering Thai police leadership's past records, it is very convincing that they have brought in the black clothed killers to fire at Thai police to create angers among Thai police, while at the same time force the police, who might fear of being shot by the black clothed men, to do as the police boss and the government ordered, that is to terrorize the protesters with deaths and injuries.

In my brief review of history, only the very damned corrupted, sinister government could have come up with such dirty tricks and still trying to depend on such terrrible lies.

Read comment

comment 70
Ian date : 11/01/2014 time : 18.34

Piset, you really are a buffoon, do you think I care how I appear to people like you. Being attacked by you simply confirms I'm on the right track
comment 69
Piset date : 11/01/2014 time : 14.46

C66, C67

In any cases of doubt, please read C65 again. No words by either of you an change how you appear in the eyes of others with the action you took. Argue more if you like.

comment 68
Chris-TH date : 11/01/2014 time : 10.06

I do try to follow the news from different sources and try to make sense of the available information.

Lately the Pathum Thani clash. How come we see a video from a van, with a gun on the backseat, and PDRC 'tokens' in the back. And, according to the first report, two of the wounded were Red Shirts (one shot in the head), 1 was an innocent bypasser, and then 1 protester. Is that 'non-violent'? Or may Piset will claim that the police did the shooting and planted the gun in the van???

(BTW, pretty stupid to try to recruit protesters in a Red Shirt stronghold. It smells a bit like provocation???)
comment 67
Ian date : 11/01/2014 time : 09.41

For someone who constantly spouts political propaganda all the time I find it quite hilarious to see him accusing someone else of doing the same.Any sensible person can clearly see that neither the PT nor the Dems in their present forms are good for Thailand, as for Suthep he is a total disaster.
Piset, there is one basic thing you seem unaware of, as a farang neither of these parties are of any benefit to use, their attitude to us is blatantly mercenary, Thai price and farang price, rip us off scam us, blame us when things go wrong. Subject us to petty rules and regulations, can't own a house or a small business, 90 days reporting, etc.
So with no love for any political group in Thailand we simply comment as we see it, I can just as easily say that the rice pledging scheme and the amnesty bill was totally stupid and equally say the Suthep and his crowd are a total disaster. I can say that some of Thaksin's ideas were good and some were disasters. As for Abhisit I can't think of anything that he has done which was good for Thailand.
Personally I have no emotional involvement in Thailand, as many farangs say, "Thailand is a beautiful country unfortunately it is run by Thais". So when you toss out childish comments like webworms and paid propagandists you simply confirm my thoughts about Thais. People like Voranai in the BP are lonely adults in a land peopled by irrational children.
comment 66
Chris-TH date : 11/01/2014 time : 08.27

I do think that have avoided any support for PT in my comments (apart from recognizing that it is probably the first time in Thai history where the administration (military or civilian) has not resorted to a violent crackdown on protesters. That is because I do NOT support PT (they are basically like the rest of the whole bunch). What I have done over the last weeks is to condemn what The Maniac and his supporters (including the DP) is trying to do.
Like I have mentioned before, I do regard The Maniac as a dangerous criminal, and he might be conducting his crusade for personal reasons (to escape the pending criminal cases). At this point I guess that everybody knows that it will end in bloodshed (intentionally???), and that the Military is forced to step in. So my fairy tale was wishful thinking (but very possible if the Military wants to LEGALLY intervene, without major clashes).

For The Maniac, I would not trust him to feed my dog, and for sure not play any role in Thailand's political future. Even some of his fellow party members described him as 'corrupt and unethical' to the US embassy (and that cable was disclosed by wikileaks, so it is not an assumption/rumor).
comment 65
Piset date : 11/01/2014 time : 07.20


Some social psychologists suggested: "His action speak louder than his words, so watch what one does and not what one says."

A quick look at your recent acts right here on this blog can lead to no other conclusion than a clear mission of your existence here, that is to serve as what I called Thaksin's Webworms. Whatever it might mean to you.
comment 64
Chris-TH date : 10/01/2014 time : 23.00

Maybe you cannot see it, so an explanation might be in place.

The Army will NOT stage a coup. The Army commander is by law (ISA) the deputy director of ISOC and the director (PM) is allowed to pass over the responsibility to the deputy director. That will give him full control without staging a coup.
Then we have the protest. The majority of the protesters want a reform and the PM to step down. The PM stepping down is effectually done with the sign-over to the deputy director, and he has the power to delay the election and initiate a reform process (without interference from 'unwanted' parties). The same majority can then go back to their normal lives and try to recover from the economic effect of the protest.
The other half of the population in Bangkok will be happy to see calm return to the city.
The Red Shirts will stay calm because the instigators of the protest (insurgency??) will be rounded up, so they are prevented from making their planned power grab. That will make the Army happy, because it is pretty bad to have some 60-70 % of the army personnel originating from a region that might oppose a coup with force.
The majority of the population, that is fed up with politics and the turmoil it has caused will also be happy.
So basically a win-win situation, except for The Maniac and his closest mob.

You see Piset, I can also write fairytales!!!!
comment 63
Chris-TH date : 10/01/2014 time : 22.15

Let us see Piset...

I expect the military takeover on Tuesday, and the first thing that will be done is to break up the protest and carry out the arrest orders. That will pacify the Red Shirts and buy the time needed to clean things up.
Not a coup but a turnover of executive power from the caretaker government (according to law). At this point anything is better for all parties than letting The Maniac get control.

Wait and see!!!!!!!!!
comment 62
Piset date : 10/01/2014 time : 22.01


Didn't you hear what the Army CinC warned YS. The government must not cause any injury and dead of the citizen the way it did December 26 at Din Daeng again, or I will hold the government responsible.

You have really more than convinced me of your absolutely biased mind on the issue.
comment 61
Chris-TH date : 10/01/2014 time : 16.46

In case you have not read the ISA, then here is a link to an unofficial translation:

comment 60
Chris-TH date : 10/01/2014 time : 13.30

Put it in a (very) funny statement (not invented by me):

"Let us agree to the fact that we disagree!!"

(that is the first step of a successful dialog)
comment 59
Chris-TH date : 10/01/2014 time : 13.26


The YS administration (if things do not change next week), will probably go down in history as the only administration that did not to deadly crackdown on protesters!!!!

You can accuse her of being 'passive', but that might have saved a lot of lives.

It also puts a question about being a puppet. I'm sure that Dr. T. would not react in the same calm way!!!!

Pisit, you have your opinions and preferences, and I have mine. Could we just leave it like that and acknowledge that we don't see things the same way???

I cannot provide any (substantial) evidence to back my stance, but neither can you. So we are kinda in a limbo I would say???
comment 58
Piset date : 10/01/2014 time : 13.05


Thanks, you have helped me drawn the best conclusion out of the situation, that is, only the damnest government would have done what they did, bringing in the MIB to ensure a violent riot between the police and the protester.

Consider the capability, opportunities and the motives at the time. That's exactly what happened, that's exactly the most likely cause of the situation.

That bring us down to an easy conclusion, namely, that's the reason that the government and its police had to come out with lies after lies in a hurry.
comment 57
Chris-TH date : 10/01/2014 time : 10.19


Please enlighten me with your knowledge of Thai laws (back to the original subject, and I am apparently a 'stupid' farang without proper knowledge of Thailand)

Fact 1: The ISA were announced for the entire Bangkok area and nearby provinces.
Fact 2: According to the ISA Section 18 (2), a number of locations were declared 'out of bounds'
Fact 3: A number of these locations WERE 'invaded' despite Fact 2.
Fact 4: The perpetrators DID violate the ISA, and can be punished with a jail sentence of up to one year (Section 24).

Do I get it all wrong? (and BTW, the ISA was created by the Military installed Government, and countersigned by Surayud Chulanont and not 'invented' by a later administration)
comment 56
Ian date : 10/01/2014 time : 09.25

Piset if you are happy throwing money in the sewer then by all means do so, it's your money. In many ways you and Suthep are kindred spirits, many would see that as an insult but you would take it as a compliment.
comment 55
Piset date : 10/01/2014 time : 08.46

I am amaze how people can seek explanations to deny themselves the truth before their eyes and ears. At least, myself and the people in our group who spend hours at Rajadamnern and near the government house handing our donation to the people there is not part of any scheme, because it was our own money and our own appreciation and support. I hope any of the stooges in the government could do the shilling with this magnitude of turn out. They time has gone. That the reason they have to resort to lies, more lies, threats, and phony threats.

Say goodbye to the worst and silliest prime minister in the world and her brother's puppets.
comment 54
Ian date : 10/01/2014 time : 08.01

Piset. "You should be amaze how they emptied the houses, shops, schools, offices, market stalls to greet and join Suthep."
When the early PAD marches took place along Sanam Luang, all the Farangs in Khaosan road area turned up to watch, they were spectators not supporters.
Humans love to watch dramatic events, we call it "Rubber necking".
On a related topic, these people giving money to Suthep in the street, have you met the expression a "shill"? Any experienced "huckster" like Suthep will know the values of using shills.
comment 53
Chris-TH date : 10/01/2014 time : 07.34


At this point in time I do think that most people agree that reforms (the WHOLE systems, including Courts!!) are required. Basically because what is in place now does not work.
The question is just about how it should be done.

The big mistake from The Maniac was to turn it into a hate campaign (and break/suggest to break the law). That has backfired in my opinion. He has become a hate figure himself.
Where I live the sentiment among people is that they want him dragged, hung, and parted, and his body parts put on display on the 'city gates'!!!
The sentiment has not been inflamed by anybody (in fact their 'camp' has been VERY quiet, which has surprised me).

The big challenge reforming the system is to prevent a majority AND a minority 'dictatorship'.

You are of the opinion that the system is flawed because a family like the Shinawatras can dominate politics, and I'm of the opinion that the system is flawed because a minority (and a maniac) is allowed to take the country hostage and attempt a power grab with illegal means. I will not go into details about illegal means, because I do not have proof (that could be used in a court of law), but I regard myself smart enough to read between the lines. So I prefer just to use the term illegal means.
comment 52
Piset date : 09/01/2014 time : 23.56


The warm up march today just went pass one of our family's building near Wongwiengyai. You should be amaze how they emptied the houses, shops, schools, offices, market stalls to greet and join Suthep. 90% of these people had never join any political movement before. You should hear how they express how this government had overextended their tolerance. You should hear how much their appreciate Suthep's leadership role at such a time when the movement is in such a dire needs for an acceptable and effective leader.

At one of our alumni gathering, our classmates, many of whom, CEOs, professors, business owners, factory owners spent the time sharing their experiences joining Suthep's marches and checking each other's plan to join the Jan 13, march. Nearly 100% of this group of people simply had resent spending their time mingling with politics in the past. None of us had any love for Suthep, nor his past records. However, he is doing what need to be done for us, our children and their children's children in this land by kicking out the Thaksin clan.

Sorry to disappoint you, I am not in Shanghai any longer, I am right here in Bangkok and have already paid many visit to the protesters camp sites and made several donations.
comment 51
Chris-TH date : 09/01/2014 time : 14.45


Thai married since 1979, First time in Thailand in 1980, but then at least 1 month every year, until I moved permanently to Thailand by the end of 1992.
comment 50
Ian date : 09/01/2014 time : 12.13

Piset 49. "many of the best informed and best educated people would fill the Bangkok street to show Suthep their supports".
Not from what I have seen of them, they are as much a rabble as the PAD or UDD, just a mob of sheep following their chosen demagogic maniac. Unlike you I did not form that impression second hand, I have made a point of visiting BKK and mingling with each of the above mobs. Change the slogans and the headbands and all these mobs are interchangeable, this is how politics operate in Thailand, mob versus mob, with sporadic interventions by floods or coups.
The truly best informed and best educated people are actually fed up with the constant nonsense of what is humorously called politics.
But this is nothing new, mob politics has been common throughout history http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titus_Annius_Milo
and of course Hitler and Mussolini are recent examples.
Have I turned mild, to you or in general? Well to you I know you are too old to change and your abusive style of debate no longer irritates, I know you can't help your cultural background. As to in general, well the world is going to the dogs so not much point in worrying about it, just go with the flow
comment 49
Piset date : 09/01/2014 time : 11.35


I don't know how long you have been in Thailand or how much you know about Thai people. With your own claim of your love of fact, perhaps you should try to convinced yourself how so many of the best informed and best educated people would fill the Bangkok street to show Suthep their supports and even donate their money for the people's causes currently being represented by Suthep's actions. Especially, if Suthep is what you have repeatedly describred, and nothing else. Are you insulting Thai's intelligent or your own?


No bad feeling, you have not changed, so your statement would still be regarded under our familiar scale of relevancy, validity and respectability.

Thanks for your kind words. You have turned mild, I don't know why!
comment 48
Ian date : 08/01/2014 time : 18.32

wch, indeed I think both Prayuth and Prem are very much in the situation of "once bitten,twice shy". The last coup was a disaster, politically, economically and internationally, this time whatever they really desire they need to play it by the book. So as long as the Red shirts avoid confrontation there can be no grounds for a coup.
The problem is if the BKK residents get fed up with the blockade and react will the army assume they are redshirts?
comment 47
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 18.29

Ian C44,

I do not regard myself as a 'savvy westerner tech',
but it is just so easy to 'smoke out' people like Pisit (and The Maniac), because they are so ego centered that they cannot resist promoting themselves all over the Internet. So much for the 'Internet worm'!!!!

I limit myself to 'spew my venom' on insignificant sites like this one, that nobody reads anyway. I regard it as a 'mental' exercise!!
comment 46
wch date : 08/01/2014 time : 18.19

Truly without premediate arrangements with chairman of privy council, they can not deploy heavy armed troop around the royal palace (the chairman is in fact, defacto regent when the monarch is on sick leave by constitution) I believe YS and Army commanders had consulted with Prem already. and, I dont think Prem thinks of another headache such as coup. Neither Prayudh does. Thaksin reads this very well and he might press his people to be cautious of any 'street incidents' that give pretex for army to act.

I think Suthep tries to provoke the troop, by tossing stealthy hand grenade to soldiers tents,,,,
comment 45
Ian date : 08/01/2014 time : 17.11

wch, whilst the King is the ultimate commander of the armed forces his obvious frailty prevents him from direct interaction with the Generals, if you like, in military terms he can define strategy but not tactics.
Where there is a confused chain of command amongst the generals conflicting tactics may take place. Again in military terms there is a lack of intelligence and battlefield information. In such a scenario an isolated unplanned incident could well spiral out of control.
Hence the need for caution.
comment 44
Ian date : 08/01/2014 time : 17.02

Possibly if I wanted advice about doing business in China Piset would be a good contact, however when it comes to discussing Thai politics Piset has a personal agenda with Thaksin plus many years of absorbing Chinese propaganda, so I tend to ignore these areas with him.
But perhaps your little search exercise has shown him one thing, it is dangerous to insult a tech savvy westerner
comment 43
wch date : 08/01/2014 time : 16.44

Mechanical explanation in philosophy is similar to the power balace in the principle of causality between two opposing mechanical devices, say such as as crank shaft and wheel in steam engine.

Army chief was 'ordered' by YS to deploy when she visited the royal guardian infactry division 11 on last,,?? Friday or Monday.
Commanding lineup is army chief-supreme commander- minister of defense-prime minister- (chairman of prive council)- the monarch. The monarch is true supreme commander in war time.

TS tacitly allowed YS to pull in the army and she went immediately to 11 div where defense minister called urgent meeting with commanders.

Say, army chief took the superior order of minister of defense to deploy troop and heavy weapon. Now Navy joins.

Thaksin system needs all the legitimate transition of government is much needed but all depends on the army direction. So by pulling army into arena voluntarily, it gives the army to decide on "cooperation or coup".

Real power play is among Chamlong, Prayudh and Thaksin. Suthep is merely a foreman of chamlong's. Prayudh, army chief is real coup planner of 2006. Thaksin firmly command his machine.

Army has no right to arrest civilian. Army is not yet the force of the state emergency council headed by the potato, Suraphong, minister of foreign affairs although army despatched some military police to enhance police force.

I think YS declares soon 'Martial Law' as army is fully deployed and hand over premiership to the command of martial law, that by law is army chief.

So Gen Prayudh acts as interim prime minister to manage the transitional government. He is forced accordingly to choose following legitimate processes of election and new elected government. He can not coup unless police in black kill some Suthep mobs - good reason to coup. YS extremely control police force not to kill anyone.

This is mechanical explanation.
comment 42
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 15.44


if they intervene (their duty is to protect the country), without taking sides, AND execute all the arrest orders issued by the Courts, then it is fine with me. As long as they perform their duty according to the constitution (that their former superiors drafted!!!).

Is that 'mechanical' enough for you???

BTW for anti corruption... I would like to see a law that punishes politicians SEVERELY, but that should also include PRIVATE/LISTED companies being nationalized in the same corruption cases (there are two parties involved in corruption. The paying party and the receiving party).
comment 41
wch date : 08/01/2014 time : 15.33

One important hint is that the army chief very strickly conforms to the laws. This is not the joke but a few including Suthichai yoon could explain it.
comment 40
wch date : 08/01/2014 time : 15.31

You two oldies, Ian and Chris,
with your western analytic sense, please explain how the army chief could have deployed troop and weapon around the most key political places now.
Please give me mechanical explanation.
comment 39
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 14.54

So how do I have to classify Pisit now:

"A conservative elite puppet, that is being paid to spew his venom on as many possible English spoken sites as possible"???????

I guess that would be overdoing it??? Can I settle on calling him a halfwit???
comment 38
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 14.48

Well Ian,

You know me from here (and other sites). I DO like to work with facts, so when someone throws 'dirt' in my face, then I like to know where they come from. It took only 30 min to find a match. I never bothered before, because I think that everybody is entitled to an opinion, but I DO have limits!!!
comment 37
Ian date : 08/01/2014 time : 14.24

Incidentally I wonder why zoominfo says nothing about his career in Thailand? Was the time between studying in America and moving to China just a blank?
comment 36
Ian date : 08/01/2014 time : 14.21

Chris it is indeed him, the picture here is the same as the one I have on file
comment 35
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 14.06

What I mean, it is a perfect match (it was in fact Pisit and lerssyn that gave me a match on BP forum posts from 2005).

1. Government sponsored scholarship in the US (what government would that be??)
2. The Thai teacher attitude of: "Don't question m y comments"
3. Columnist
4. Affiliated with an AIS (Dr. T.) competitor/enemy (CP/TRUE, aka Dhanin)
5. The 'China connection'

Just 'circumstantial evidence' (you kinda like that, don't you????)
comment 34
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 13.50

BTW Pisit,

Google is a wonderful tool if you know how to use it and feed it with the proper clues.

My search came up with this 'match'. I think the profile justifies the match, but if it is not you, then you have a 'twin' sitting somewhere in China (Shanghai):

comment 33
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 13.19

Allow me to post a BP link:

comment 32
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 13.03

And BTW, they are still 'Men in Blue'. Maybe you are colorblind, and in that case I will not hold it against you!!!!
comment 31
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 13.02

Your 'consequential' evidence has one one major flaw. Let me explain why.

We have had 3 site with violence and fatalities.

1. The Ram clash that left 1 student and 3 red shirts dead. The police was blamed from not being present to quell the clash.

2. The Thai-Japanese clash that left 1 protester and one police officer dead.

3. The (revenge/retaliation?) attacks on protest guards that have left 4 or 5 people dead.

The only 'entities' that are involved in all 3 incidents are the Student movements (too lazy to look up what they call themselves).

I also remember reports back in Nov where they were about to be expelled from the protest because they did not want to follow the directions of the primary protest leaders.

That is too much of an coincidence to me, and I do blame the protest leaders for allowing them to be part of the protest. If that was a deliberate decision, then I put even more blame on the protest leaders because they would (should) know that it would end in violence and deaths.
comment 30
Ian date : 08/01/2014 time : 12.48

Piset, you have two problems in these blogs, firstly you will argue in areas where you have limited knowledge (note I will argue with Alien on matters of science, but not American politics or economics). Your worst problem is your Thai (Asian), style of insulting those who you argue with, in western culture this means you have lost, insults are the refuge of the incompetent, as is regularly demonstrated by Thai politicians, Suthep being currently a good example.
comment 29
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 11.48

Well, I start to find you amusing also. Maybe you should re-read your entry and consider the:

"subjective, irrelevant, and unintelligent contents"

But anyway, I consider you (by now AND again) as a pretty harmless (although not very clever) person. How does the saying go:

"A dog that barks do not bite".
comment 28
Piset date : 08/01/2014 time : 11.19


Thanks for your relatively kreng-jai statement. I just can't help downgrading subjective, irrelevant, and unintelligent contents. That's how I regarded that Chris-TH, after a few rounds of his writing.
comment 27
Alien date : 08/01/2014 time : 09.19

I thought you must be talking about Obama there looking at your title. Maybe I'll go hit the New England Patriots blog now. We have a playoff game this Saturday. I see your 49'eers move ahead too. They should do well against the Carolina Panthers.
comment 26
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 08.59

I wonder if this is an admission of breaking the law and the intend to secure an amnesty if he wins his fight????

"If we win, you and your cronies will have no place to live in Thailand," Mr Suthep roared from the stage, referring to caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra. "If you win, we'll have to accept prison"

Please credit and share this article with others using this link:http://www.bangkokpost.com/opinion/opinion/388461/suthep-reform-just-another-empty-promise. View our policies at http://goo.gl/9HgTd and http://goo.gl/ou6Ip. © Post Publishing PCL. All rights reserved.
comment 25
Chris-TH date : 08/01/2014 time : 08.05


I honestly regarded you as a pretty intelligent person, but maybe I was wrong??

What you don't understand is that I detest The Maniac as much as you detest Dr. T.!!!

The Maniac is everything/doing everything that he is accusing Dr. T. of. They even have the same charges (including pending) against them:

1. Insurrection
2. Inciting chaos and violence
3. Murder charges (well Dr. T. will have them for the War on Drugs if some people get their way)
4. Shady land deals (caused the fall of the first Chuan administration, and now his son faces charges)
5. Illegal/concealed shareholdings (The Maniac escaped an EC disqualification for his media share holding by resigning, so he could keep his position as Deputy PM)

And I guess the list is even longer.

So that it the reason for this 'worm' to become active again after being 'dormant' for 2-3 years.

The Maniac is a selfserving person with no regard/respect for anybody. I'm sure that when he is not on the stage, he is watching video recordings of himself. He is dangerous to the people and the country and should be put away for good!!!!!
comment 24
Ian date : 08/01/2014 time : 07.56

Piset, you are so typical of the educated Thai that you briefly had me puzzled for a while, I though you were starting to have an intelligent discussion with Chris. However, once you started to lose ground you restored my assessment of educated Thais by reverting to insults rather than logic. " a completely brained washed webworm "
I think the fat little boy in North Korea would appreciate your literary style.
Don't bother to try and insult me, you should know by now I just find you entertaining. Even deleting my comment is entertaining
comment 23
wch date : 08/01/2014 time : 07.48

You seem not enough to have lived in Thailand even during 60s when you earned living in the large 3 rais mension as jenitor, when M16 was 2000 baht and your salary was 500 baht.

You know, the lietenant commanding a sniper platoon from Isan border police and pumped bullets into Chamlong Mobs around Demo monu in 1992.

He got high speed train promotion to Police chief and minister of interior during Samak's 'heng-suay' time????

This is the model dream of the policemen ever since. Be not naive.
comment 22
Piset date : 08/01/2014 time : 01.01


I can agree that you are no common pro-Thaksin web worms, but a completely brained washed webworm serving Thaksin's interests and nothing else.

Thanks for your convincing demonstrations.
comment 21
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 22.55

Should I try to make is more clear??

I'm not so naive that I think that Dr. T. cares about the farmers in the North. From a CEO point of view they are (were) an untapped market. Making them consumers was a good business (US style economy)

And I do hope that you are not so naive to think that The Maniac cares a shit about the people in Bangkok.

People that are eager to enter politics mostly have personal motives:

1. Ego
2. Revenge
3. Protection
4. Money (if they are not already rich)
5. Boredom

Dr. T. qualifies for 1/2/5, and The Maniac qualifies for 1/2/3/(4).

Normally the best country administrators are the ones that are reluctant to accept a position.

I'm about to finish reading "An unfinished life" about JFK. He is (was) a typical example of 1. His 'crusade' for the Presidency was driven by his father's ego, and by his own. Just to prove that it could be done.

Dr. T. and The Maniac followed (are following) the same destructive path!!!
comment 20
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 20.50

Let me clarify my remarks in C19.

I have not seen any evidence that Dr. T. made any money on rewarding Gov work to specific companies. What I have experienced is abuse of his powers to PREVENT companies/people from winning contracts. Not for economic gains, but to get back on people that he detested (and maybe cheated him). That for sure did not make him a lot of friends.

So in a way the allegations of corruption is correct, but not in the normal sense (enrichment).
But on the other hand he was just repeating what other people did against him when they were in power!!!

So like I said in previous comments: "They are all the same".
comment 19
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 20.10

Well Piset,

Regarding my C15. I guess that a court issued arrest warrant and a summon to hear the murder charges against him, combined with court rulings that determined that (currently 14 (?) including a 14 year old boy) persons were killed by soldiers, and the military claims that they acted on orders from the The Maniac, kinda provide circumstantial evidence that The Maniac in a criminal (and on the run from the law)????

For myself being pro-Thaksin... Hardly. I know the 5 executives that left SC&S in 1993 (two of them became business partners in my company), so I know a 'bit' about Dr. T. that is not generally known.

For this remark of yours:

While the protesters were attired in their daily simple clothes plus a towel over their nose and mouth and garggles over their eyes

This picture kinda tells another story:


If I had your 'sharp eyes' I would bet from the (needle?) marks on his arm that he is one of the rent-a-mob drug addicts that The Maniac has trucked into Bangkok?????
comment 18
Piset date : 07/01/2014 time : 17.45


I used to live in a 3 rai compound full of trees in Bangkok. I was the only member in that house, family member and employees included who have never bought a gun. But, of course, we praticed our marksmanship within our compound quite regularly. Bullets and guns were much cheaper then. An M16 cost only 1500-2000 baht then, but we didn't want to have one because we did not need it.

Coming back to the blog. The bullet heads and shells were found, people were shot. While the protesters were attired in their daily simple clothes plus a towel over their nose and mouth and garggles over their eyes. I am convinced that not all of them are unarmed. However, there has not been even one single report of finding any one protester carrying and/or using a gun. At the same time the cops were in full anti-riot suit covering themselves from head to toes. You have got to admit, no one in the world would ever believe none of them carry guns, loaded. Based on these circumstantial evidences, I fully believe that the guns were fired from the police and the men in black.
comment 17
Piset date : 07/01/2014 time : 17.37


I have to thank you for helping me proved your mental status. C15 show yourself to be an indefensible pro-Thaksin and pro Burndown Bangkok red mobs. C14 help me see how non-sense you could be in dodging the issues, and C13 simply confirmed to me your lack of intention to lie, but did it out of a habit.

I am blaming Abhisit and Suthep for having not been tough enough when there was a call to defense the security and the pride of a nation of in the hands of those money-liquor-and drug driven red mob. Do you know that, 400 unarmed toopers who carried only shields were injured or killed. Your skipping this part proved your biases.
comment 16
Ian date : 07/01/2014 time : 16.35

Out of the 200 or so families in my village I know of 5 that possess guns and there can't be a shortage of ammo because one guy regularly shoots his when he drunk and angry.
comment 15
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 13.16

The Maniac is a criminal and a fugitive from the law!! Apart from that he is charged with murder, backed by Court verdicts that innocent people were killed by the military during the 2010 crackdown. The military (as far as I know) is in possession of a document, signed by The Maniac, that authorizes the use of lethal force. So the military for sure passes the 'buck' back to Suthep. So (probably) the remaining issue is for the court to determine if it is a case of premeditated murder or manslaughter. His only chance to escape the charges against him is to overthrow the system and try to put some amnesty into a new constitution (2007 style). I do think that the majority of the Thai people would oppose that if they were aware of this (very possible) motive.

In my opinion, his only defense would be temporary (or permanent???) insanity, which is the reason I changed his nickname from 'The Toad' to 'The Maniac'
comment 14
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 13.03

And please remember that unarmed and weapons is not limited to guns. Any instrument that you use to cause bodily harm to another person is a weapon. That for sure includes the equipment that riot police is using, but that usage is authorized by law.

If I carry a Chef knife that I use in my work, it is not a weapon, if I stick it into somebody's guts it is.
comment 13
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 12.30

I'm NOT defending anybody, I'm accusing the protesters of being violent, and as such most likely to be the ones firing the guns!!! There is a big difference.

I base my opinion on footage like showing protesters driving a 6-wheel tuck through a gate, and using other vehicles to tear down fences and walls (not temporary fences, but part of the stadium structure.)

So before someone presents proof that the police used handguns, then I stick to my opinion.

All the pictures that you posted here shows police officers in riot uniforms, carrying anti-riot equipment. (In fact your second picture shows a police officer, a captain I think, in a normal brown police uniform). So the whole MIB fuzz is bullshit to me.

For me the protesters (the frontline/hardcore ones) are criminals and as such, so are their protest leaders!!!
comment 12
Piset date : 07/01/2014 time : 11.23

Since the government and the police side had officially and publicly issued several untruthful statement, I am sure that discrediting of their statement would go to all of the statement they have issued regarding the situation.
comment 11
Piset date : 07/01/2014 time : 11.21

Quote: "So I'm not defending anybody." T

That was the biggest lie you have written on this blog.

Read all of your writing again and try to convince anyone that you were not defending anybody.
comment 10
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 10.15

With these deaths reported today:


We have the following count of gun victims since (including) Dec 26:

2 + 6 + 2 = 10

That is one gunshot victim per day in average!! So don't tell me that people do not have easy access to guns (and use them when they get angry!!!). (Yesterdays shooting was by a teacher, so probably not a legal gun)
comment 9
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 09.51

My claim is based on the likeliness of protesters carrying handguns and using them is more likely than being the police officers. Especially when the media reports that the protesters were not properly organized and the protest leader was not present for longer periods (even during the fatal shootings).

Handguns are available all over Thailand and not even that expensive. I think I would be able to get one within 4-6 hours by placing a single call.

And if you go for more simple handguns, you just need to know some of the vocational students. The produce such guns and are using them regularly in their gang fights. Or talk with some of the motorbike taxi drivers. I think 6 people were killed on Jan 1 in that gang fight???
comment 8
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 09.39

I'm just ruling out that the riot police that was on top of the building were involved in the shooting (you are the one that posted those pictures!!).

The forensic reports say a .32 and a 9mm bullet, and I don't see any .32/9mm handguns in your pics.

When I mention details about rubber bullets, that is trying to stop the silly accusations that the rubber ammunition was replaced with live ammo. You do NOT fire .32/9mm ammo from a 12 gauge (shotgun).

So what is known by now is that the police officer was apparently shot from street level and from the direction of the gate.
The protested confuses me, because apparently he was on the east side of the tall building. That is totally out of sight from the rest of the Ministry buildings and also from the South gate of the stadium. And that position is not even visible from any of the buildings on the stadium site.

So I'm not defending anybody. The protesters claimed that MIB on the roof fired the fatal shots. Initially the police denied that there were police officer on the roof, and it COULD be people in stolen uniforms. Both sides lied!!!!

So what is known at this point is that people were shot (from street level?), and most probably on close range (the bullets went through the bodies?). That leaves everything open. Both side claim that they were not armed with lethal weapons, so one (or both!!) side are continuing telling/spreading lies.

You claim it is the police (without any proof), so in order to create a balance, I guess I have the right (also without proof) to claim it is the protesters????
comment 7
Ian date : 07/01/2014 time : 09.16

As can be seen evidence can be used by both sides to support different viewpoints, we see the same debate over who did or didn't use chemical weapons in Iran. Unless there is reliable independent evidence the truth becomes stays hidden. Indeed the "truth" becomes what one wants it to be. Piset has an obvious bias towards one version of truth, Chris sees a different version of truth. I feel the final police version is nearest to the truth but the police in the usual Thai manner have cast doubts on it by the usual evasive tactics when dealing with questions.
comment 6
Piset date : 07/01/2014 time : 08.49


Thai police almost made it, except that the 4-5 times their spoke consisted of completely different content with one consistent tendency, that is, irresponsibility.
comment 5
Piset date : 07/01/2014 time : 08.47


That's the photo showing the existence of the armed persons attired in black. The cops originally denied their existence, later, claimed that their were not police, later, claimed that they were the protesters, some even claimed they were dispatched by the protesters, when all else failed the police chief personally and verbally on TV admitted that they were police.

The question is not whether they were police or hired killers. The most pressing question now is, why were there so many waves of excuses and accusations against the protesters before admitting that these were police. Even that is questioned. Were they regular Thai police or hired killers from foreign countries.

Why would a sitting government's police chief take so long to give so many assortment of completely inconsistent explanations. In court, whatever, he said or will say will be seriously doubted by the jury and the judges due to the precedent of attempted lying or misinforming.
comment 4
Piset date : 07/01/2014 time : 08.42


Fantastic, your reply is even more technical than the police. I wonder!

The blue anti-police uniform is an absolutely bullshit.

Whatever you tried to refer to the specification of certain guns and bullets, the forensic reports showed the dead persons and many injured were due to live bullet, not rubber. Just wonder how and why you are so high in your acts to defend the criminal act of this government and its cops and killers.
comment 3
Chris-TH date : 07/01/2014 time : 00.00

I wonder if you are a Ronald Regan fan???

"If you tell the same story five times, it's true."
Larry Speakes, Reagan White House Press Secretary

If so, you only have to repeat yourself 2-3 times more!!!
comment 2
Chris-TH date : 06/01/2014 time : 22.15

Your second pic is also easy to identify. The is only one building in the vincinity with such a roof structure (please open the link). That building is located SW of the building where the police were on the roof, and as such in the opposite direction from the stadium.


So who is telling lies?????
comment 1
Chris-TH date : 06/01/2014 time : 21.33

Well Piset,

The Thai riot police uniforms happen to be (dark) blue, so much for the 'Black attire'. They even wore those uniforms in 2010:


And rubber bullets ARE fired from a 12 gauge gun. You need a smooth bore barrel to fire them, so anything riffled will not work. What you also can fire with such a gun is buck-shots or even brenneke slugs (http://img67.imageshack.us/img67/5118/slugseq7.jpg), but I have not heard any reports about people being hit by buck-shots (pellets), and the brenneke slugs a soft lead and in a human body they will make an exit wound so big you can stick a whole fist in.

So there were no 'Men in Black, on the roof, only riot police, and from the pictures you posted, they were only armed with 12 gauge guns for the rubber bullets and the hand thrown version of teargas grenades. That is also what the commander of that platoon stated. Furthermore (I have mentioned that before), there is no view to the stadium from the roof, and some of the first picture in fact show the residential buildings to the west of the entrance of the Ministry.

For you benefit I have posted links to Google maps. There is in fact street view in that area, so if you zoom further in you will get it and be able to determine what they could actually see from that 'vantage' point.


A street view to the residential building to the west of the Ministry:


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